What is the actual cost to manufacture one of the converter boxes and what is the actual "mark-up" for the manufacturer?

I didn't realize that the coupons would expire in a few weeks. Of course, despite the fact that I ordered mine on January 4, 2008, and have followed up with a letter, I haven't even received them! So, I guess I won't be able to take advantage of this offer.

When will consumer reports test and compare dtv pal?

CR readers should be aware that with the first batch of DTVPals, a number of consumers (see link) are having problems with the 2 features that set DTVPals apart:
1. Electronic Program Guide
2. Event Timer
These are due to some discrepancies in system time between broadcast stations.
One user reports that Dish support has said that these boxes are not field-upgradeable, and to get an update, would require shipping a new box.

RE: DTVPAL. I purchased one last week at Ultimate Electronics in Denver for $39.95!!! "Last one on the truck." said the sales clerk.
So far, works just dandy. I love the Event Timer which allows one to set the unit to change to a specific day, time and channel which then allows the VCR to record. Just needed to remember to set the VCR to channel 3 at all time as the DTVPAL provides the channel source. Picture seems fine (much better than analog) and no problems with audio as has been noted on some other brands.

The DTVPal were announced to be on sale at Sears last week. I go to my local Sears store this week and was told they got a shipment of only FOUR units and they were sold and gone as soon as they arrived and put on the shelf. Only FOUR. Sounds like they are rationing these DTVPal boxes. My local Best Buy have at least a dozen Insignia boxes. But Sears had only FOUR DTVPal boxes. I have an Insignia box bought with one coupon, but I wanted a DTVPal box to buy with my other coupon. But my local Sears only got FOUR of them. Agh! I guess I have to order one of those DTVPal boxes online but I'm hoping they still don't have that timer problem.

Do I still need a "splitter" and 2 converter boxes (1 hooked to VCR, then TV; other hooked directly to TV) in order to record one program on my VCR while watching a different program on the TV if I use the DTVPal?

Just ordered a DTVPal from CheapDigitalConverters.com. They were $58.99 plus $10 shipping on that website, best price I could find. Hope they're worth all the hype.

But before I found that one, I tried to order one (regular $59.99 price) from the Dish Network website link from Google... because I own a DISH (I want the box for my bedroom TV not connected to DISH), I couldn't complete my request online. They displayed a toll free number I had to call. Luckily, I didn't do this and kept searching for another place to buy one... and I ended up saving $1.00!

DTV Watcher: Are you saying that your Sears store only had 4 DTVPal's in stock? I couldn't quite tell from you comments, other than the fact that you mentioned it FOUR times! :)

OK. My previous positive review of this unit on 7/16 has gone down. As noted by another person in this forum, my unit's event timer is kaput - it will not hold the channel it is set to. Instead in always reverts to the local PBS station. After 45 minutes on the phone with Dish repair, the bottom line was: return to store for replacement, IF they have one...Otherwise TBD.

My local Sears only got FOUR units, meaning only 4 DTVPals. They were sold out the same day they came in. I'm guessing that some people (probably at least two guys who each had two gov't coupons each) in my area also saw the news that Sears was getting the DTVPals and went to Sears everyday last week until the DTVPals showed up and snatched them up as soon as they arrived. So that means NADA, NOTHING, NO DTVPAL for me to buy at Sears. The Sears person in the electronics department said they were suppose to get more but don't know when. I'm not holding my breath if they only got FOUR of them in the first place at my local Sears store. Only FOUR of them. Yesh!

I just put in an order on the DTVPal website. The only problem I had in ordering was that I had to call DishNetwork on their 800 number to make sure that my $40 gov't coupon card went through because it didn't show on the confirmation page. Seeing the full price plus S&H and tax but no $40 gov't coupon discount was disconcerting. Calling the 800 number cleared things up because I was told that the order was "incomplete" but now complete after my calling to talk to the DishNetwork people. So, if you get a DTVPal, maybe call their 800 number to order to make sure it's done right, or go to that other website that Gary C. went to.

Oh what I thought was silly when I was talking to the DishNetwork people on the phone was that they asked if I needed someone to come in to set up for me. They probably automatically ask that for all the satellite TV orders they get. But this is just a DTV converter box which I don't think is too difficult to set up. But I suppose that some people will need help. I'm guessing there's an extra charge if want someone to set it up for you.

Marie: I like your splitter idea. Maybe that's simplier than what I do. What I was instead planning to do was a daisy-chain where I have my Insignia DTV Converter (NS-DXA1-APT with Analog-Pass-Through) connected to the TV via the antenna coax connection and set for channel 3, then I would have the VCR connected via the coax to that first DTV Converter box but have the VCR set up for channel 4, and then have the DTVPal connected to the VCR (maybe using the A/V cables) where the DTVPal is acting as the tuner for reception to be received for the VCR. And then I would have my antenna connected to the DTVPal at the end of all to that. I don't know if this will work, but this is the sort of daisy-chain that I use in connecting two VCRs, a DVD recorder, and a DVD player to a single TV for regular analog over-the-air TV.

Oh I'm currently using a splitter but for connecting TWO antennas to my Insignia DTV Converter box - that way I have the first antenna pointed in one direction to get reception for most of my channels while the second antenna is pointed in a different direction for getting two other channels that need the antenna to be pointed in that different direction. That way, I don't have to get up from the couch to rearrange the antenna for getting a particular channel. When I get my DTVPal, and set up the daisy-chain, then I'll have to move this dual-splitter-antenna to the DTVPal at the end of my daisy-chain.

Again, don't know if my daisy-chain will work or if the signal will be messed up, but that's how I'm going to try it when I get the DTVPal box to go along with my current Insignia DTV Converter box.

I just purchased a DTV Pal at my local Sears store. After reading all of the info on the internet, I just had to try one even though I'm very happy with my Zenith DTT 901. What I have found is that it does not pull in the same stations as the Zenith. I get all of my local stations with the Zenith and the Pal misses 4 digital channels, which do have a lower signal strength (I'm 40 miles from Minneapolis). I guess you need to decide if the extra features are worth sacrificing channels. I quite disappointed after all the hype!

Info on how to set up 2 boxes with a splitter is found on www.fcc.gov/cgb/comsumerfacts/CC_converters.html. You may have to follow some links or click on the question: "setting up your digital-to-analog converter box with a VCR". They also talk about getting a splitter with a built-in amplifier since this split may weaken the signal. I presently don't have to change the antenna position to get my channels so don't have that problem YET! I am thinking of connecting the DTVPal to the VCR since it has "event timer", but getting a different box with a universal controller to hook directly to the TV since that will be used the most often and a universal controller DOESN'T come with the DTVPal. Any thoughts on other units, especially ones with either the aspect ratio button on the remote or auto aspect ratio in the box???

DTVpal EXASPERATION! I ordered the DTVpal by phone from Dish Echostar, and it arrived by UPS in two days. Everything seemed to be ok until I noticed that the Box was turning on and off on
it own - without any timer being programmed! I unplugged the unit; I restored the factory defaults, ans re-set up channels, etc.. The I programmed the timer, and I noticed that the timer
turned on 1.5 minute before the event started -as it should- but
the unit DIDN'T TURN OFF at the end of the event. I "Disabled"
the Inactivity Standby thinking that may resolve the problem. NO
LUCK.

I called Echostar Customer Service, they turn me over to Tech Support who told me first the unit "Should Turn Off" after the timed event was over, then switched me to TWO other techs for
a fix. No fix. The Last Tech told me "it is NORMAL for the unit
to stay ON after the timed events are over!

Called again Echostar next day, and a nice Rep, Ken, told me that
I will be receiving a replacement unit with a different "Software
Version" that the One I had with the "F101TCGH-N" Software Version. Well, I received it today, July 30, 2008 by UPS at 1:10pm; it has the same F101TCGH-N Software Version, and I tested the timers again and the Unit STAYS ON -STILL ON 2 HOURS
AFTER THE TIMED EVENT ENDED! AND AFTER PAYING $ 35.84 [after a $40 coupon], now I have to pay $ 12.00 for shipping back the first Unit for a replacement Unit with the same problem.

The Unit's timers have "Starting Time" that turns the Unit "On"
but NO END programmable time - just duration, like 30, 60, minutes, etc.. But at the end of the "Duration Time" the Unit
has no mechanism to "Turn it Off". It stays on FOREVER!!
I hope Consumer Reports test and verify that on the "Software Version" listed here. It is a LEMON!

Nikos,
Why do you care that the converter doesn't turn off after a program is over? As long as it changes channels to record a second or third program on your VCR or DVD-R, every program is recorded correctly. I imagine the power draw is next to nothing, maybe a penny or two a day.

If it turns itself off when you are watching tv, that would be a problem.

After waiting months for the DTVpal, having one order canceled because of unavailability and the price increase, I finally got a pair just days before my coupons expired. I installed one on my bedroom TV shortly before we left on vacation.

Two weeks later, it wasn't working properly. When turned on, it would download schedule for a minute, give me about a minute of TV viewing, then the picture would lock up. It would stay this way for a while, then eventually "reboot", power off, back on, and repeat the process over and over.

Aside from all the firmware bugs that have been reported on this unit (see the AVSforum link), this unit is broken. Repeated emails, chat, and phone calls with Dish over the past 2 weeks, and they can't even figure out how to replace a failed box under their warranty. It seems their entire operation is set up to require an account number to do anything, which DTVpal users don't have.

This company is dishonest and does not support their product. Their alleged warranty isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Since I bought this with coupons that are now expired, can any one tell me how to get my money back, either from dish or the vendor, INCLUDING the value of the coupons, so I can buy something else?

Then there's the problem that no other box will support a VCR or DVR programming after next January.

TO: Bob - 21 Aug - "Full Converter Refund?..."

It is NOT allowed ... the initial $40 is simply "gone!"

Except for the straightforward, live watching of the 4 - 5 major networks + PBS - without recording - the federal coupon Converter program is a very limited one!

Many will need replacement antenna systems of one sort or another ... if hired to be accomplished commercially, any will cost far more than the Converter.

For homes with multiple CRT televisions, the possibility of simply having analog cable thru early 2012- free to the remaining TVs after the initial set - will prove to be the more satisfactory solution, as antenna signals are usually insufficiently strong to support 3, 4, etc,. TVs adequately.

In our market, new "analog" cable customers are being offered free installation for all sets in the home and a "special" monthly rate schedule.

To all:

We've updated our Ratings of DTV converter boxes to include 24 more new models, including the long-awaited DTVPal. Please go to this URL:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/televisions/digital-tv-converter/ratings/dtv-converter-boxes-ratings.htm

Or go to:

http://www.consumerreports.org/dtv

and see the link to the "Ratings of DTV converter boxes."

-Paul Eng
Web Senior Editor, Electronics

DTVPal produces a very good picture on most channels in my area (Saint Paul, MN) without any change in the antenna position. I never watch a television show when it is broadcast, instead recording it on my old analog VCR for viewing later. The problem for me is that when the VCR receives the digital signal from the converter box, it suppresses the volume and adds a background hiss to the VCR recording, which is very annoying. Apparently, an analog VCR is not very compatible with DTVPal. I disconnected the converter box and decided the best solution for my situation is to remove the need to use the converter box by purchasing a new VCR with a digital tuner, such as the JVC DRMV100B. If you just watch television in real time and don't record programs on an analog VCR, then this converter box is very good for that situation.

I ordered the DTV Pals several months ago and had been using them successfully to simply watch TV without any problems. Lately, the picture quality has plummeted. When I simply stopped turning on the Pal in order to watch regular old TV but now approximately every 15 minutes which disrupts our TV signal. This happens as well when everything is off. We have checked everything, reset to the factory defaults and it continues to do this, kind of similar to Nikos' comment. I have yet to call Dish, but I'm guessing the same deal will happen with teh "programming". But I'm wondering if this "top quality" piece of equipment cannot stand up to power surges and brown outs, which occur frequently in my area and if you need a power strip.

If anyone else has this problem please reply to this comment.

My DTVPal is working pretty well except if I turn it off for 30min or more, it looses all the timers that I set. I am not sure it is a bug or it is supposed to be this way. I used to be a Dish Network Customer and I know their support is not reliable (from my own expereince).

I know ignorance is no excuse, but I also did not know that there was an expiration date on the cards. I didn't even open the envelope until recently, after having it for several months. I figured there was no hurry since I didn't need the boxes until February. I'm hanging on to my cards just in case they decide to honor them after all.

To Kiavash:

It sounds like you have a unit with "bad" firmware. We wrote about it in this blog. See this entry:

August 29, 2008
Issues with Dish's DTVPal DTV converters?

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2008/08/issues-with-dis.html

-Paul Eng
Web Senior Editor, Electronics

TO: Ronnie - 30 Aug - " Expired Coupons ..."

Sorry - but - since to do so would cost them over $7 million dollars ( the value of expired, unused Coupons as of last week ) - No Chance !

Besides, most will also need a new digital antenna system - Not covered by any coupons !

TO: Ronnie - 30 Aug - MATH No Good !!!

That's 7 million + unused, expired Federal Coupons - NOT dollars worth !

Obviously, that times the $40/each equals WHY they
are not about to "change their rules!"

Sorry !

There is nothing special about the antennas. I have had VHF/UHF antenna for 20 years and use it will all of my digital converters, TVs, and recorders. I've even tested various boxes using just old unamplified "rabbit ears" for quick tests. Right now all of the stations in my area use the UHF spectrum. Take a look at http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/dtvantennas.html. Also look at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx which will assist you in pointing your antenna in the right direction. It has a map of the location of the local broadcast towers for your area. The last site also gives you the ACTUAL DIGITAL CHANNEL number. Most people are not aware that the actual broadcast digital channel number is not the same as the old broadcast channel number. A "special" feature of digital transmission allows the "old" analog channel number to be displayed and stored for tuning purposes even though another channel number/frequency is actually being used.

I just recently got the DTVPal Plus and it seems to be working great for me. I cannot imagine how there could be any converter box that could be better than it. The only thing it is missing is a universal remote control.

applied early

waited for better information regarding converter box.

Now coupon has expired
include my name on list of millions
to wait for act of Congress

TO: John - 28 Oct - "Expired coupons - need Act of Congress?"

It is very unlikely ... Too many Much Hotter problems ahead of this one, obviously!

As of last Wed, over 30 million were mailed & with 9.8 expired, only 20.2 used/still valid, that means essentially 10 million will Have to do something else.

All major markets do have a new, limited analog cable service until 2012 .. COX has (24) @ $11.75 / Comcast in many offers (20) @ $11 ... would keep all the VCRs going, too, as well as avoid the need of an appropriate UHF antenna System required by ALL federal coupon Converters, including a total replacement sometimes!

Has anyone tried the new DTVPal Plus and if so, did they fix the gliches that I read with the on/off and timer problems? I would like to buy one but now I am hesitant. Any info would be highly appreciated. Thanks

like some here,I cant afford to pay the prices being charged for cable or att uverse(which sounds like a dream come true,I read about it last night...wow...cell phone acess to tape shows at home..I REALLY like the sound of this but medicine,food and shelter are most important and barley able to afford those)well all I need to be able to do is *cheaply* tape Days of Our Lives weekdays...on my antique : ) white ((which was hard to find)) 13 inch tv with built in vcr.....this little tv has been a prized possesion of mine and every night before falling off to sleep I watch my soap....so its very confusing on how I can still accomplish this task...and what Exactly I will need...since the vcr is built in,i havent had this answered and my coupons expire wednesday...THATS HOW LONG I HAVE BEEN INQUIRING..WOW

TO: Kathy - 09 Nov - " Coupons expiring ...?"

Federal coupon Converters aren't always a satisfactory answer ... watch for any of the "preview / advance notices" regarding 3 A.M. sales on Friday after you've enjoyed the turkey, etc.!

All of these DO have the needed internal ATSC digital tuner now .... no Converter at all used !

You "DO" need an appropriate antenna & most-likely, NOT the set top one being used. Unless very close to your TV Towers, indoor, set top antennas are a pain & do Not provide 100 % consistent digital reception like our 40-50 year old "rabbit ears" / analog sets did.

Wal-Mart, of course, plus Costco each has extended Plans for folks on very tight budgets, too .... about $59 / 2 years, etc..

Got two DTV converter boxes in august - this dish network / echostar DTV pal and an RCA dtv converter. Hooked to the same antenna and the same TV, the RCA gets 7 channels in perfect weather. Hooking the dish network / echostar DTVPal to the same antenna and tv immediately after or before testing with the RCA converter, the dish / echostar box gets zero (0) channels and zero (0) signal strength. After spending 30 minutes on the phone with echostar / dish customer service and tech support with no answers, they said they would send me a replacement unit for my defective unit. I asked if they would send me a return shipping unit for the defective unit, and the customer service rep said no, they would with satellite boxes but they didn't want the defective dtvpal back. So I waited and waited, and now two months later a replacement dish/echostar dtvpal has never arrived. They did offer to sell me satellite tv, but based on this support experience, I won't be buying anything echostar/dish for a while. Disappointed.

Do not buy the DTV Pal! I bought two DTV Pal's in August 2008. It is now December, and one is dead & will be disposed of shortly, the other one has been turned on only a few times, and still works (at the moment). Both unit's timers cleared themselves for no apparent reason, and were completely undependable.

I am, at the moment, a Dishnetwork customer, but not for long. I also have (rent--they would not allow me to purchase--thankfully) a Dish 625 DVR. This is my 4th 625 unit in 16 months. As a Dishnetwork customer, I have been forced to take their "insurance" in order to avoid hefty repair fees for the 625, and yet is their faulty property. Because of this, I was not surprised to hear of other customers having problems with their warranties on the DTV Pal, and the lousy customer service--been there and done that already with the 625, which is why I've decided to save myself a headache, accept the loss, dispose of the "Pal" and move on. I've heard that fiber optic cable is coming to our community, so I'm biding my time.

I cannot recommend any Dishnetwork product. My advice it to steer clear of them and be afraid if you are their customer. Be very afraid!

I'm rooting around to see if anyone has a fix for the clock problem.

I also gingerly offer a "solution" for the "event timer didn't work at all" problem:

The machine turns itself off after 4 hours. You can get into the startup or whatever (book's at home) menu & turn that feature *off*.

The event-timer doesn't work *at all* if the machine is off.

My problem is that an event-timer that loses time isn't so hot either, because I have to calculate the rate at which it loses time into times I set.

It looks like if you unplug it for a while, after you plug it in again it reads the program guide into itself again, & in doing so apparently gets the correct time. I say "apparently"; haven't tested this enough to be sure.

I'd way rather have a clock you can set.

Also, when I started using the converter (I started early because Fox network in Boston is not broadcasting in analog any more, & I'm addicted to a few of their dramas, *not* their "news") all the programs came in in "Zoom" format. I prefer what DTVPal calls "normal" format, known to the rest of the world as "letterbox". After a while, the box seemed to "learn" that I wanted letterbox. This will be good for things on the event-timer, where I'm not there to manually change the feed to letterbox. This would be a lot better if there was a way to *set* the format you want as a default. I really don't appreciate "computers that learn", I basically want to be able to give them commands.

TO: " ghostjmf " - 21 Jan - "Timers, etc.,?"
Plese do consider buying / trying a subscription?
There's a Converter "Resident Expert" @ Digital Transition - FORUMS ... well worth your funds ! here is (1) example .....................

http://discussions.consumerreports.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?msg=7918.21&nav=messages&webtag=cr-0403eltelevi#a21

will expired coupons be honored? i have 2 i received last july & now they have expired. what can i do?

TO: lisa - "Expired Coupons - what to do?"

Today - our Senate did pass a 12 June Extension, with the House already having done a similar one..... as soon as the variables between these are worked out, all will proceed eventually, or, at least, you now have another ( 5 ) whole months!

Just Consider a new digital TV & don't bother w/ a Converter ... these have never been cheaper !

Does anyone know what to do with expired DTV coupons; i.e. can they be traded for valid / useable coupons? I received them after the expiration date as printed on them, qty. (2) and was denied to use them at the store where I tried to purchase the receivers. PLEASE ADVISE.

Thank You
Joe Pillari

TO: Joe - "Expired Coupons...?"

For now, no one "KNOWS!" Keep them ... each group of our Federal Law Makers have voted in opposite directions just this week!

Keep them ... that's "free" at least .... "IF" the analog broadcasts DO actually shut down in your city, seriously consider asking your local cable company for their all-new, limited channel service .... keeps all the TVs in the Home {& their VCRs going as well} thru 2012 ..... ours here IS @ $11.75, No Contracts Req'd ..... then, you can always make a different decision After our Government ever makes UP their minds!

Failed after about a week. The tech support phone number leads to someone who tries to sell you a dish antenna; you can't get to a real tech support person for the DTV converter box. Similarly, when you email for support, they demand a dish antenna account number, even though this is not a dish antenna product.

The online "chat" system won't help you unless you give them your telephone number so that they can telemarket to you.

The entire purpose of selling these DTV boxes seems to be to get you to buy a dish antenna later.

got one today from solidsignal, will update on reliability. The features are to good not to try it. Also got the Channel Master, as they are quality.

I bought a DTVPal back in January..... since then... working fine (I think it has the Firmware 106).

Have tried the basic timers, and they worked ok. Picked some TV shows in the future, and it counted down about 90 seconds before they showed and switched to them ok.

The Guide is very good, and on some channels, lists up to 7 days of programs... some channels have only a few hours.... I guess that is up to the individual channels. After the switchover, they may increase as competition intensifies between the broadcasters.

The remote control is easy to use, and not complicated. It is large and is clearly labeled. (It is clearly a clone of the DISH networks sattelite remote).

Picture quality is very good. Once again, depends upon what is being broadcast.

The only negative is NO controls on the converter itself. Lose the remote, and you are up the creek!! But... you can probably use the DISH satellite remote mentioned above! Or, probably, a universal remote to some degree.

So, all in all, a very good DTV converter. One of the best. Get a good antenna, put it in a good place, keep the cable as short as possible, and enjoy FREE DTV!

For those that have commented about expired coupons, you can now request additional coupons from the www.dtv2009.gov website. You will only be allowed to request additional coupons if your original coupons went unused AND they are past the expiration date. If you have lost your coupons but they are not past the expiration date, you are out of luck.

Don't buy the DTVpal. I bought 2 of them and they don't work. Over half of the time they will not turn on, or turn off once they are on. It is not the remotes since the light on the unit will flicker. These are totally useless. my Zenith convertor works great!

Same problem as mark, can't find anyone to talk to,can't return because it is over 90 days old, can't afford another one before the change over.

TO: Jackson - "BAD Converter w/ NO customer service ..?"

Very sorry for that bad experience - obviously, in your case, there'll be Zero TV shortly.

BUT - take "heart" in the small comfort that NONE of these varieties of federal coupon units are intended to be or EVER will be a permanent "solution" or {fix} for this DTV switch !

As reported here by C.R., converters are ONLY a very temporary bandage to allow for the continued usage of picture tube sets for a short time longer while one's budget IS prepared for the ultimate purchase of a proper HDTV set, with their internal digital tuners !

The "QAM" tuner allows for the HD reception of all local networks for free / no added charge even on the very least cost, limited channels local cable service plus w/o ANY set top box whatever . . . our COX has 22 channels @ $11/mo which also provides at zero added fee the ( 8 ) local networks in HD as well.

Lastly, the straightforward building of that "Coat Hanger Antenna" {here in "BLOGS"}allows for the free O.T.A.-DTV for those physically located nearby their TV Towers!

Much of the TV now IS only repeats until FALL - - Have patience & better luck soon !

everett

Yeah, the DTVPAl works great, so what about paying a measley $20?

I purchased one of the DTV pal a few months ago. Great picture, good features, program guide is nice, works perfect, no problems. Like others said, DO NOT LOSE THE REMOTE. It is the only way to operate the box. Also my second coupon expired, I applied for a new one and got a new one in about a week. I purchased the DTV pal at K-mart but they are hard to find in stock.

So what's the consensus today? Should I go with the DTV Pal, DTV PalPlus, DTV-TR40 or Zenwell ZAT970A? My hubby is really upset that we ran into this problem because of our VCR.

TO: " itcanbedone - " WHICH of the Converters?"

Definitely not that unit via DISH TV !

AND, really make him a Very Happy DTV viewer by giving up on any VCR other than to use it strictly as a Player of your old tape library.

Instead, go to :

www.tivo.com

And buy any of their O.T.A. units ... the "days" of using anything BUT a dual tuner {record 1 channel while viewing a different channel} on a hard drive storage is over !

Do also view their "web specials" . . . last week, it was $179.

And, don't use that $13/monthly as an excuse!
Well worth every penny for the convenience / performance.

everett

P.S. = " itcanbedone " . . .

Just-In-Case - - - NO Converter at all w/ TIVO!

everett

If I decide to buy one of these converter boxes can I hook it into my comcast signal and use it for recording? If so will I need any special cables, software etc.

To Rick:

The answer: NO!!

DTV converter boxes, such as the DishNetwork DTVPal, have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with digital cable TV. See:

Cable users confused about DTV transition
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2009/05/cable-users-confused-about-dtv-.html

DTV converter boxes are for use SOLELY with "over-the-air" antennas -- either on the roof or inside the home, on top of your TV set -- and actually have nothing to do with recording TV.

The only exception would be DishNetwork's
DTVPal DVR." See:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/dtvpal/dvr.shtml

Please note this too works ONLY with OVER-THE-AIR digital TV signals, NOT cable.

Hope this helps.

Paul Eng
Web Sr. Editor, Electronics

Paul Eng
Web Sr. Editor, Electronics

TO: Rick - "Cable Recording ..?

Ofter a MOST popular topic @ the subscription "FORUMS" - DTV has essentially brought about the end of 100% successful, every show, every cable channel private machine recording!

Goggle " The Digital Millennium Copyright Act" ... "DRM" as in digital rights management .... lots more

Embedded within the digital stream of Much of the DTV programing are 'bits' which will interfere with or block any such attempts.

Alternatives are extremely-few :

www.tivo.com

various internet connections to a P.C. w/ a video card & tuner

Otherwise, Paying ~ $13/monthly for a local cable's captive dual tuner, hard drive Recorder/Receiver is "IT!"

everett

I've had ongoing problems with the DTVPal Plus. First of all, the stations are shown with strange numbers, rather than the proper numbers. Next, the program guide is great when it shows info, but it often has nothing. Occasionally, it either switches to a channel that I haven't programmed in for no reason, and other times it gets the time wrong or the station wrong. That said, when it works, it's great! I also have a Zinwell 970A, and that also has its ups and downs. And their customer services group acknowledged much of this as engineering problems months ago, but never generated a fix so what good was that? And when I proposed that I trade it in for a credit towards their DTVPal DVR, hoping that might work better, they said no way. I think the guy who said to get a TIVO is right, if only I could afford it (including the service, router, etc.)

TO" Larry - "Why not Try / get a TIVO?"

Have you happened to see their "Web Specials?"

These are offered during each month, different models @ different occasions.

Last time, it happened to be some Unopened but still brand-new units for substantial reductions.

Other times, it's a 'waiving' of their ~ $13 / monthly fee for (90) days.

Still other 'specials' have been for their 'Refurbs' or some overstock of their other, larger capacity machines.

Don't quite understand your post re: .. router? Outside of a tele connection { or ethernet} for their TV Guide Link, there is NO router involved at all . . .

Have a "look" for what's "on special" currently - - - FAR, FAR better than any convertor you have tried-to-date!

everett

www.tivo.com

Perusing tv converter boxes listed for sale on Craigslist and Ebay, I've come to realize many many people must be using their coupons to resell boxes they never intended to use. As the Zenith/Insignia/LG boxes were the boxes with the least number of used listings, and the boxes receiving the highest bids, these sellers are really profiting, and demand is high. For what it's worth, there are very few DTV Pals listed, and that may mean there are many more satisfied customers, than not. Having researched all converters, the biggest benefit of the Pals is the EPG, if it works consistently. If you need to replace the remote, Google "Universal remote code for the DTV Pals, Zenith, etc, and you'll be pleased to find others who have had success, and with the most popular big button remotes. Good news for us Boomers.

Good news! For those who trying to use a Universal Remote on their DTV Pal, here's a quote: "With the Pal Plus, I programmed the universal remote to use the standard codes for an 'echostar' satellite box that Dish recommends, and was pleasantly surprised to see that damn near everything worked right out of the gate, including power, channel selection (both up/down and numeric entry), plus menu, guide, info, and even bypass (selected quite logically with the 'line' select key on my remote)." The author was using a 7 y/o RCA 850 remote, and had 6 different converter boxes in use. Follow the discussion from page 1 (the above info is on pg.3): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145940. I found it helpful, good luck!

I only have two problems with this, but one is a biggie I am sick of. The first problem was the dreaded LETTERBOX.

I hate letterbox. Who wants to watch Regis and Kelly in a tiny bandaid across the screen? As for movies, I can deal with it, but again, I hate watching a tiny bandaid just to see if I might miss a leaf over to the right, or a tumbleweed rolling to the left, or the back pocket to the right of the supporting actor's butt. Unless it's a cute one.

I hate bandaids, when I have a full screen to use. But, the full screen option on the converter box wasn't really full screen. It was more like a "bigger screen, but not filling it up, but definitely distorting picture so sometimes people will be too wide and sometimes they will be too tall" option. I never tried "zoom" because I thought that was for what the DVD player does.. zoom in close. I learned zoom option on the converter box is what will allow me to watch Regis and Kelly in the same full screen glory I always did before. They just didn't know that it should be called full screen.

Only movies should be watched in letterbox, and only if the letterbox is HUGE.

I hate bandaids. Did I mention that?

The other problem is the sound. Stop motion sound. Can't get past it. And I live in a good reception city in a good reception part of the nation. I shudder to think what others are experiencing.

I still refuse to buy cable. They can continue to try to force me, but I won't do it. I won't do it, I tell ya.

I had to buy the DTVPal Plus to get the TV Guide onscreen programming on my DVR to work after the digital switch. Well, it never has worked, in spite of me, my audio engineer husband, and a tech from a local AV store trying to set it up according to the manual. We can watch TV but the onscreen programming doesn't function. The audio quality is horrible, the unit turns itself on and off randomly, including several times in the middle of recording in spite of having disabled the timers, and it frequently changes channels on its own. The signal strength on all but a few stations fluctuates tremendously, and even with an amplified antenna we have virtually no reception on several channels. The Tivax converter purchased for our 19" set with built-in rabbit ears works beautifully - every channel comes in crisp and strong, the audio is dynamite, and it hasn't once shut itself off for no reason. The user interface on that unit is very straightforward and intuitive. Now, 91 days after purchase the DTVPal doesn't work at all - just won't turn on. Manufacturer's response? "You must have had a power surge." No, haven't had any power glitches, and the unit is plugged into a Tripp-Lite UPS with substantial surge suppression. I'm ordering another Tivax box today and learning to live without the onscreen programming.

I've had one of the DtvPal Plus converter boxes hooked-up and working the past 3 months. I've used the 'timers' in combination w/ a VCR to record shows and everything worked ok the past 3 months. Then, last week the dtvpal unit started acting buggy. It used to download the program guide when first turned on (after being off for awhile), it quit doing that, it now shows "070" for actual channel "009", the date/time randomly goes to dec. 2000, I programmed timers yesterday and they did not work, unit never came on, just recorded "snow" for two hours on the vcr while I was away from home.

The echostar company that makes this unit hides behind not having any real actual live telphone number and no proper level(s) of any intelligent support or accountability. Abstraction and being without your unit for 3 months is the only thing this company tells people. This unit has reliability problems and there are MANY people online describing reliability problems with this converter box. I have the unit plugged into a known-good UPS. I've been through all the 'factory reset' abstraction it didn't help so please don't tell me to unplug it, let it sit etc. - I'm a EE w/ 30+ yrs. experience, and contrary to the company that made the unit, I know what I'm doing. There needs to be a class-action lawsuit.

Where's our COUPON for actually making converter boxes WORK and have the overall ability to reliably program the recording of tv shows ahead of time LIKE WE USED TO BE ABLE TO DO.

I too bought a DTv Pal box. With coupons. I bought two. Which was an extra $40.00. It worked for about 3 months. The all of a sudden it went off and hasnt worked since. I bought the antenna the company says went with the product. But that has not helped. The company says nothing about returning your money or giving another so what are we to do? The people who have spent all their money on the box thinking it works. We cant afford cable. So now what?