I'm thinking of buying one should I wait for the second gen.

The comparison is in referance to a standard electric water heater. What about a comparson against a natural gss water heater?

There is a critical mistake in the article. The EF of this unit is 2.35, not 0.92. That is (obviously) a big difference.

Have you done any noise testing on these units? That is a major concern for some locations, and comparing data on different heat pump units is impossible due to lack of uniform testing procedures.

Very interesting article!

I currently have a 50 gallon gas tank-type hot water heater.

It would be interesting to compare the GeoSpring to a high efficiency gas tank unit and tankless unit for operating costs.

If it's worth it, I might consider switching.

You don't something for nothing. So if this Water Heater pulls energy from the room air, does you furnace need put out more heat to compensate? Of course in the summer one's A/C might have to do less, since the Water Heater should be doing some of the cooling do it.

So, I save money on heating my hot water,and spend more money re-heating my basement that I just cooled off to heat water? Rob Peter to pay Paul? I suppose in a climate where you wanted to actively cool a space this could be beneficial, but I would think in most climates, any money saved in warmer months on air conditioning would be spent in cooler months on extra heating. If this is a "gas is cheaper than electricity" thing, so heat your home with gas, why not just buy a gas water heater?

The savings seem nice but a another test for us northern folk whose basements are 55-60 degress for half the year would be appreciated. This is an expensive upgrade so multiple tests at multiple ambient temperatures would be nice.

This sound great in the summer when it will cool your basement to heat the water. But in the winter, you're going to refrigerate your basement, adding to your heating cost. So the $280 savings is not really accurate when you factor in the additional heating cost.

This water heater will give a decent ROI if you live in the deep south, but not up north.

I am using an electrical water heater but want to something change in it. so I think about this wonderful technique. want to take a trial first, is it possible?

If this unit is placed in an unheated space with good thermal contact to the earth (basement or subarea), you end up essentially pulling most of the heat from the ground. This unit is not appropriate to place in a heated space, IMO.

Data on similar heat pumps as a function of temperature would indicate that loss of efficiency down to about 40F is minimal. I believe one could still expect EF of about 1.8 in such conditions. See data here:

http://www.airgenerate.com/products/why_airtap.html

At one point I plotted the data and fit it (it is pretty linear) and found the the COP (and therefore the approximate energy factor) was 25-30% lower at 40F than at nominal test conditions (68F). An energy factor of 1.8 is still about twice as good as direct heat (storage or tankless): nothing to sneeze at.

I live in coastal California (Bay Area Peninsula) and our water heater is in an unheated subarea that is vented to the outside but insulated from the house. The temperature in the space averages about 55F in Winter and 65F in Summer with almost no diurnal variation (makes a great wine cellar). This unit will work very well in my situation. Noise in the room above and reliability (new model issues) are my biggest concerns. Still, given electric rates in my area (and no natural gas), I expect this unit can pay for itself in less than one year, making it a no-brainer.

Cheers,
Tim Nelson
SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory

Granted ... it will "cool" your/my basement (and I do live in the Northeast) ... but would the minor benefit of drying the basement air off set the price ... for we do keep a dehumidifier in our basement already. Just a thought

I have the same concerns about cooling the basement. Water has a much higher specific heat than air.

Now how would the energy efficiency work out if you put the heat pump water heater (which produces waste cooling) next to your deep freezer (which produces waste heat)? Off the top of my head I would guess it's not enough to cancel out, but maybe for an ice maker!

Skeptical of this for the north, I'd like to see the overall efficiency. If it's a temperate northern climate, a split system air source heat pump or geothermal heating system with a de-superheater could produce enough waste heat for hot water. Much bigger investment though.

I am more interested in more info on gas tankless hot water heaters. Are you doing any testing on these? The only thing I saw from you was a 2008 dating, I need recent ratings, now. It would be good to test both propane and natural gas. Thanks, Holmes

If I place a GeoSpring in a small 3' x 8' detached utility room in our garage along side our furnace's blower system (and our water softener system), would having the blower in this same room as the GeoSpring reduce the efficiency of the hybrid heat pump, even though this room is in fact insulated from the rest of the house, and not part of the home's heating/cooling climate?

Do they only have a 50 gallon tank? Seems overly large. How about comparing to a gas fueled 30 gallon tank? Appears to me that the payback time is many years. The article was sloppy and incomplete.

Has anyone compared the difference between the GeoSpring hybrid electric heat pump water heater and a solar hot water system offered by FAFCO. There would be a big initial savings as the Geospring heater would be about $2000 installed and the Solar unit would be about $6000 which would mean the it would take many more years before the solar heater would pay for itself. From what I can determine the Geospring unit seems like the way to go.

I installed one of these a few weeks ago and it works pretty well. The fans are loud, so consider that if installing in a living area.

For those who are concerned about cooling a heated area, it does have a setting to run in traditional mode using the two standard heating elements. Obviously this wouldn't make sense if you are running the heat year-around but if you have excess heat in your climate most of the year you could have the advantage of this heaters efficiency and "free" cooling for that part of the year.

I'm in GA, electricity is around 7 cents / kilowatt (cheap!) but the local natural gas supplier is a monopoly and higher than national average. Location of water heater is in a basement, non-heated / cooled area. Seems like a good choice for me, but wondering about the possible downgrade in available hot water.

This is because I have an old gas water heater. So if I upgrade to this one, can I simply keep the water temp higher to achieve the same amount, or more hot water available? For example, if I keep it at 110 degrees now with a gas heater, then switch to the GeoSpring and keep it at 115, will I still have enough hot water? I'm guessing yes, but ROI goes down.

Thoughts?

this is what GE says... http://www.geappliances.com/heat-pump-hot-water-heater/water-heater-faq.htm#canReplaceGas

For those with unwanted cooling concerns: these units (GE & Rheem) are hybrid and have three modes of operation. 1) all heat pump; for the 2.0 - 2.35 efficiency factor. 2) heat pump combined with traditional electric for cold or high demand. 3) all electric mode.
I'm at 5K ft. elev. in southern AZ, but my elec. water heater is in the center of the house. Issues for me is the 1K sq. ft needed to feed the ambient warm air requirements and noise. I have yet to find out the sound level in heat pump mode. The pantry area where it would be installed is only 288 sq. ft but opens (pocket door) to the rest of the house. This would be great for cooling the house. Noise is the remaining issue. If 1/3 is a Fed. tax credit, and AZ rebates $435 then it's very economically viable.

"I have the same concerns about cooling the basement. Water has a much higher specific heat than air."

Yes, it is obvious that there isn't enough heat, even in a large basement, to heat a SINGLE tank of water. However, your basement isn't inside of a vacuum bottle: the air is only a transfer medium. In the case of a basement or subarea with good ground contact (generally the case), the heat comes from the earth, and there is more than enough heat there.

To put it another way, consider the equivalent heating scenario. How many BTU/day would you have to dump into your basement to keep it heated well above the temperature of the surrounding earth (let's say, keeping it 10F warmer than its unheated equilibrium temperature)? If you were only heating the air in the space, the amount would be negligible, but anyone who has done this knows you can keep a good-sized space heater busy this way.

If anyone wants, I can run the numbers to estimate how much heat must be pulled from the room to heat a single tank. One could take that and do the above experiment with a space heater to find out about how much this unit would cool their space.

We have purchased this unit last February and so far have seen a reduction on our daily kwh from 20 to 14. Our electric cost here in Oahu, Hawaii is around 25 cents. I think this unit is well-suited for our warmer location and ROI is definitely greater here. We just hope that GE will prove its long-term reliability with this product.

I recently installed one of these in a sealed spray foam attic. I was going to wait until they were in the field a few years, but with the available tax credits and a parts and labor warranty for 11 years (79.00 at the big box store) it was worth a shot. The amount of cool air produced is not significant. At most a few degrees on the end of the attic where it is located. Overall in a 2300ft attic I doubt it would even be noticable. Since I have many more hot months than cold it's well worth the added cool and dehumidification it produces alone. The sound level in heat pump mode is comparable to a small window unit AC or a little louder than my chest freezer. Not guiet, but fine for a utility room.

Anyone can make a video on the noise or the decibel level? This is a real concern for me because I plan to put it in a closet in the living room.

Also, for about a 1000 sq/ft house. How much would it cool, if it were at 80 degrees.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Seems like a great product!
As a heat pump specialist I look forward to being able to work on this product in the near future. GE always brings out some of the best products and it seems like this one is no different!

I'm having one of these installed next week. Based on the customer reviews posted on lowes.com and sears.com, it looks like a winner.

A few notes from my research...

*The noise level is about the same as a room air conditioner. It also must be installed in either a minimum 10' x 10' room or a closet with a louvered (vented) door. If installing near a bedroom or living area you will hear some noise.

*In order to clean the air filter on the heat pump, the unit requires a clearance from the wall of at least 7 inches. If your current water heater is shoved in a tight space, measure to be sure it will fit allowing for the 7 inches on all sides.

Since I live in Houston (garage temp about 65F winter, 95F summer) I hope to see the full 62% savings using heat pump only mode.

I paid $1440 on sale (not incl. tax or install). With the $375 Texas Trade-Up rebate and the 30% tax credit, this should easily pay for itself in under 3 years.

i have not found anything that addresses the relationship between water softeners and storage tanks.
what is the solution to my storage tank rusting out early from the salt in my soft water?
would a glass lined tank be better?

This Consumer Reports article leaves off very critical parts of the discussion, as many of the earlier comments attest. In any discussion of a new electric water heater, it is important to state comparisons of the GE Hybrid heater against gas heaters! Leaving this critical piece of information out makes GE's claims (and Consumer's suggestions) of "high efficiency" useless to the majority of Consumer's readers who use gas heaters! Please try to address this serious ommission.
Paul_!

I bought one to take advantage of the Ohio "cash for appliances" program. I have been interested in the category since I first heard about them ~12 years ago. I have had it for approx 1 month. It has some neat features and some dumb features.

It is aware of "real-time" in order to allow 3-14 day "cold air off" and "vacation" functions, yet it does not allow "dont come on between 0600 and 1800" timing.

It has a "diagnostics" menu but mere OWNERS do not have the authority to look at it, you're not important enough to know how the appliance you paid for is working.

The louvers discharging cold air out of the back are aimed down and not adjustable, so the cold air accumulates against the wall, and it "regurgitates" it causing it to work inefficiently or shut off altogether. When the ambient air gets too cold from repeatedly passing thru the chiller, it switches to resistance heat WITHOUT telling you, even if it is in "never use resistance heat" (ie eHeat) mode. I had to build a cardboard plenum redirecting all output air into an adjacent room to get it to work at all.

While the fans start out at a reasonable noise level, every three minutes they kick up to a louder level and after an hour it is competing with the noise of C-5 jet aircraft on approach passing 1500' overhead.

I am not convinced it is working correctly - in 10 minutes in "resistance only" mode it heated the water by almost 20 degrees, yet it took 3.5 hours in "heat pump only" mode to get an additional 10 degrees. this comes out to an EF of 0.39 as opposed to 2.3 as advertised. Also it is producing almost no condensation despite my basement being 55% humidity. BUT, if you call for support at the toll-free number, they act like they are running a classified DoD program when you ask for information. They will only tell you obvious things that are already in the manuals or online.

If you ask for specifics they refuse to give them to you, they say users are not allowed to tallk to technicians; for example, my basement is at 58-64 degrees F year-round (the installation instructions require between 45 and 120) - consequently I want to know the energy factor at my temperatures - she refused to give me the info, she suggested I hire a plumber AT MY OWN EXPENSE (bear in mind it is only 1 month into the 10-year warranty at this point) to test it.

With an attitude like this for a new technology device that costs 9x the price of a conventional water heater I dont want to be dependent on these guys for service so I am returning it and THEY can figure out if its broken or not - I'll wait til they are down to $300 before I am willing to do that much of their job. If they were smart they would take better care of "early adopters". This is probably why I have almost no GE appliances left in a house that was "all GE" when built.

@Softwater: Its not the salt. My parents have a softener and their heaters lasted 30+ years. I have one also and my heaters eat through in four years if left to themselves. The problem is "galvanic" action - the water heater is acting like a really big, low-voltage battery. While I can not solve the problem for you, you can treat it by keeping an eye on your "anode rod".

The "Anode rod" is a component in ALL tanked water heaters that dissolves first in order to protect the tank. Its kind of like keeping a pile of tasty balsa wood outside your house to keep termites from eating your boring pine house structure. (note: I dont actually know if termites prefer balsa, its an analogy)

Once it is gone, your tank will eat through. Plumbers wont talk about them because they'd rather sell you a heater for $200 than a rod for $20

You can buy anode rods at Lowes/Home Depot/etc. Look for an indentation in the steel top of the heater housing that is not explainable otherwise and chisel it out. The anode rod has a big 1 1/8 hex bolt head. As heater mfrs learned how to cut costs the have also gone to rods mounted on the hot water output pipe itself, so you need to unscrew it to get to the rod - I prefer not to buy one of these cause its a PITA to maintain.

You will probably want to shut off water to the heater before opening a big hole in the top.

You should also flush out the chunks of dissolved anode (basically bauxite) every 3-6 months. I personally prefer to shut the power off a couple of days beforehand and use the hot water in showers etc so I am not draining hot water out. I also blow compressed air into the drain against water pressure to help break crud loose when flushing.

I am thinking of placing it in an unheated space which I wish to convert into a wine celler. The room is around 100 S.F. The ambient temperature is around 60 degrees. I would not mind if it dropped down to around 55 degrees and increase the relative humidity a bit.

Any thoughts why this might not be a good idea.

Has anyone had experience with these and hard water? I usually have to replace my regular elements every couple of years and get about 5 or more gallons of sediment out as well. The process is a pain with a regular electric water heater, how much more complicated is it to deal with the heat pump?

Good discussion. Some comments:

"In order to clean the air filter on the heat pump, the unit requires a clearance from the wall of at least 7 inches. If your current water heater is shoved in a tight space, measure to be sure it will fit allowing for the 7 inches on all sides."

Incorrect. As stated in the manual, the clearance in front and behind are to remove the covers for service and to allow the cold air to move away from the unit so it doesn't recirculate. You need clearance ABOVE the unit for filter removal. It's all spelled out in the manual you can download from the GE website.

"In any discussion of a new electric water heater, it is important to state comparisons of the GE Hybrid heater against gas heaters!"

In our area there is only propane. Also, it depends on what the goal is, cost savings or energy efficiency.

"I am not convinced it is working correctly - in 10 minutes in "resistance only" mode it heated the water by almost 20 degrees, yet it took 3.5 hours in "heat pump only" mode to get an additional 10 degrees. this comes out to an EF of 0.39 as opposed to 2.3 as advertised."

Bob, your calculation above is complete nonsense. Even without using the heat pump at all the EF is going to be close to 0.90. As for the rest of your rant, maybe something is wrong with the install. Did you follow the manual and leave 7" behind the unit for exhaust clearance necessary so that it doesn't just recirculate cold air?

"I am thinking of placing it in an unheated space which I wish to convert into a wine celler. The room is around 100 S.F. The ambient temperature is around 60 degrees. I would not mind if it dropped down to around 55 degrees and increase the relative humidity a bit.

Any thoughts why this might not be a good idea."

Mine is in an area used for wine storage also (I make wine). Overall, it is a great idea, especially if your cellar gets a little too warm in the Summertime. However, be aware that it will REDUCE (not increase) the RH in the space, so if it is on the dry side already (not likely where you live) then it is not going to help you maintain ideal humidity for long-term wine storage. Also, 100 sq. ft. is on the small side, so depending upon your water usage and the location of the room (ground contact or not) you may get more than 5F of cooling.

These units are selling for a price that is about $1200 higher than a plain electric water heater. With claimed savings of $300/year, that is at least 4 years to break-even.

My concerns are RELIABILITY and LONGEVITY. How likely is it that the unit will last at least 4 years with NO repairs needed? And, how long should I expect it to last beyond that?

I've had mine for a few weeks - so far, so good. The noise level is less than what I expected - about the sound of a room dehumidifier or a window AC on the low fan setting.

I'm using eMode (heat pump only, no elements). Tonight I did 1 load of dishes, 2 full loads of laundry and a shower with no signs of running out of hot water.

Added plus: Since this pulls heat out of the air, I've noticed my garage is now about 4 to 5 degrees (F) cooler.

IMPORTANT INSTALL NOTE: If your local codes require a drain pan under the water heater, get a wide (26"ID/28"OD) pan for this unit! The drain faucet is hidden behind the front panel and is only about 2" off the ground. Using a 24"ID/26"OD drain pan it is impossible to hook up a garden hose or set a pail to "drain a few quarts of water each month" as stated in the owners manual to keep the tank clean. I had to get creative by cutting out a small piece from the top of the drain pan and attaching a 45-degree garden hose shut off valve.

Two issues. Heat pumps are mechanical devices that are likely to require more service than a classical water heater.

My house is heated and cooled with a heat pump. So in the summer they would be working against each other. The air con would be cooling the room and the water heater warming it. Now I bet that is not efficient.

Um no thanks.

I bought one of these and had it installed in my cottage at Put In Bay in Lake Erie. It works great! Uses very little electricity, it does provide a cooling effect which is very helpful in keeping the cottage cool, and the noise is very tolerable. If you shower and do laundry in the morning, the heater runs during the day and the noise is not very noticeable. At night, it almost never runs at all. True, it's noisy enough that I wouldn't want it in my bedroom or the living room. Mine is in a utility room with the washer and dryer on the first floor. The electronic controls are great, especially for my use. When I leave the cottage on Sunday, I simply program it to have hot water for Friday evening when I arrive. It allows you to do that for up to two weeks, which is perfect for my use. I'm totally satisfied.

I've just ordered the Rheem hybrid water heater version from Home Depot to be put in. Presently I have a propane water heater that consumes about 300 gallons of propane a year or about $900 at around today's prices (At one point, the price of propane was over $3/gal from my "monopoly" vendor.) It's going to cost me $3,000 total to put the needed 220 volts electricity in the furnace room and hook up this hybrid water heater.

This is how it will pay for itself: First a 30% tax credit (which is not available, I should note, for conventional electric water heaters even though they are "energy star"). 3000-900= $2100

Second, my old water heater is about eight years old and, like other appliances put in by my builder, will probably need replacement soon. 2100 - 800 = $1,300

Third, my energy costs (BTW you can use those yellow stickers on your water heater to calculate energy costs with today's prices) will, hopefully, go down $700 a year.

Thus, I break even in about two years (700 x 2), use less carbon energy and get more stable energy pricing. Finally, this is all possible because the cost of this hybrid water heater includes a 11 year or so labor/parts warranty.

Your situation will be different. But, you can use this approach to make a decision; best to you.

It's probably a good idea to assess how long it will take you to break even. Rates are so high in CA that after the 30% federal tax credit (including installation costs) we will break even in about a year. However, if break even is longer than 5 years, you might want to think twice, or at least pick up extended service. The Sears 5-yr extended service was the same as cheaper water heaters: we paid $111 for a 5-year service contract (!)

I had this unit for 6 weeks. I am an engineer, I do my own plumbing and wiring, and had even installed my own HVAC heat pump when I built my house, although when I replaced it after ~18 years I had it done commercially. I had read about HPWHs about ~12 years ago when they were experimenting with them in CA and I had been looking forward to them becoming commercially available.

This unit weighs a lot and is top-heavy, very hard to get into place; like a 1930's refirgerator (and for the same reason). The look is pretty nifty, with an LCD display showing which mode you wish it was in, and what temperature you seek to maintain. For some bizarre reason GE chose not to display the ACTUAL water temperature, even though there is plenty of room on the display and it is information the unit already knows in order to function. It also has an error and diagnostics menu, however mere owners are not authorized the code to access it.

The air exhaust louvers are not adjustable and blow straight down against the wall behind the unit, so it fairly rapidly starts regurgitating its own cold air. This, in turn, cause the fans to run faster and faster (and louder and louder) until it drowns out C-5 aircraft on approach 2000' overhead, then eventually it stops trying to use the heat pump altogether and switches to $$$ pure resist mode WITHOUT TELLING YOU; despite being set to "eHeat" (ie NEVER use resist) mode.

I had to form a plenum out of cardboard to duct the cool output air into the adjacent laundry room (my basement has no interior drywall, just open studs) just to get the unit to work at all in HP mode.

I ran many tests and measured the power consumption with an inductive AC ammeter. In HP mode, it draws 2A on each leg (about 500W) and takes about 90 minutes to heat 10 degrees (in the middle of its operating range, say 90degF to 100) for about 72 Wh/deg . In resist mode it draws about 18A on each leg (~4000W) and heats 10 degrees in 5 minutes, or 33 Wh/deg. This is en EF of 0.46 vice the advertised 2.36 which means it consumes TWICE as much electricity in HEAT PUMP mode as it does in resist; the reverse of what the ads claim.

When I contacted GE to get an explanation of what was going on and perhaps see if I was doing something wrong, they were complete @#$holes. The tech support "script reader" refused to let me talk to a technical person, saying users were not authorized to talk to their engineers...! They said I would have to hire a plumber at my own expense (bear in mind this is 30 days into a 120 month warranty) to diagnose it; and where am I gonna find a plumber who knows as much about it as I do?

With GE's attitude, I did not want to get stuck depending on them for support, so I returned the unit and reinstalled my old one.

@Steve: I updated my post (above) with actual power consumption instead of book values and used the average of 5 tests for times. "Nonsense"? Numbers are numbers, if you can find where Ive done some math wrong, I would like to know. (I'm not the best typist) Suggestions that I might not be able to read a clock, ammeter or thermometer will indicate you are simply trolling. Stipulated the act of measuring water temperature will have a small effect on the temperature in the tank as 1/2 gal or so is drained to measure and replaced with ~55degF incoming, but both modes pay that penalty. The clearance to the wall was 11 inches at closest approach and the wall behind the unit only comes up to 4', above that is a 20x20x8 open space.

As far as "rant"; yeah OK, maybe its a rant. But when a consumer products company tells a consumer that he does not have the authority to know how his product should perform; then they deserve a rant. And it would have been in their own best interest to talk to me, they might not have had to take a very expensive water heater back.

oops, that reply was to tim, not steve; I am used to names being below a post not above (like it shows in the preview box).

I currently have two 40 gallon tanks in my attic in my home in San Antonio. The water is extremely hard and water heaters last about six years even with a softener. Are these units safe, water leak, for an area over our living area? Also would one be able to provide adequate hot water, there is no shortage of hot air in the attic.

I just received my first bill from APS, after installing a GeoSpring about a month ago.

I lived in Glendale, Az; I put the unit in the Heat pump mode only, not Hybrid. My bill shows a decrease of $40.

As for the noise, the unit is in the garage, so I can hear it when I enter the garage, but I do not hear it in the house.

While working, the unit emits cold air, like an AC in the back; this is cool!

In response to a few comments and concerns, there is a front panel button which turns off the cold air discharge.

I just purchased and installed the Geospring after my ancient water heater finally ruptured. My old water heater was maybe 20 years old, and I didn't realize how inefficient it was until I started comparing the Energy Guide labels on various heaters when I was shopping for a new one. I took the plunge on this one even though there were only a few reviews like this online, because if it's half as efficient as claimed, with a couple hundred dollars savings a year plus the federal tax credit, I'll still come out ahead in 3-4 years.

Being a Houston resident with my water heater located in the garage, there will be plenty of ambient heat for the Geospring's heat pump to use, hopefully making it even more efficient.

It was "only" $1430, compared to the MSRP, and I installed it easily in a few hours. I went ahead and got the Lowes $80, 11-year protection plan because water heater reliability seems to be a crap shoot, and this being a much newer and more complicated model, it was worth $80 to me to cover any possible failure of it over that time... it will also guarantee more energy buyback over those years.

Having it in operation only a couple of day, I can say it provides hot water well, and I don't hear the pump fan blowing at all in the garage (though I've checked it several times to make sure it was actually running). The condensate drain line definitely puts out some water, so you have to make sure it's fed to a drain of some sort. You also have to make sure you account for extra space above for the filter removal (my electric and water line placement makes it difficult to remove the filter). The extra wide drain pan (as one poster above mentioned) is a necessity.

A few helpful comments and facts:

1.) Efficiency at other ambient room temperatures:

Keith Burkhardt of GE said this on another blog:
...
Finally, the ambient temperature of the air surrounding the water heater can affect the efficiency of the Hybrid water heater. As mentioned above, the energy claims are based on a DOE test procedure that is performed at an ambient temperature of 68F. Based on these test conditions, the energy factor (EF) of the GE Hybrid water heater in Hybrid mode is 2.35. At a 2.35 EF, the Hybrid water heater uses 62% less energy than a standard 50-gallon electric tank water heater, and the savings claim associated with a 2.35 EF is $320 per year. If the ambient temperature of the space housing the Hybrid water heater were higher than 68F, the energy factor would be higher resulting in more efficiency. Conversely, if the Hybrid is operating in a space with an ambient temperature that is below 68F, the EF would be less than 2.35 and the Hybrid would operate less efficiently. The following information is not substantiated by a third party testing agency and is based on GE’s internal testing. This information is being provided to help put this ambient temperature effect in perspective, and is not intended as an energy efficiency claim. At an ambient temperature of 85F, the EF for the Hybrid water heater in Hybrid mode would increase to approximately 2.6, which, when compared to a standard 50-gallon electric tank water heater would use 65% less energy. The savings claim for a 2.6 EF would be $340 per year. At an ambient temperature of 50F the EF would be reduced to approximately 1.8, and the Hybrid would use about 50% less energy than a standard 50-gallon electric tank water heater. The savings claim for a 1.8 EF would be $260 per year. These values are not exact. They are approximate values that are provided to show the approximate effect that the ambient temperature will have on Hybrid water heater performance. As a standard, all Hybrid claims are based on the DOE test procedure, which is conducted at 68F ambient temperature.
As you can see the energy efficiency claims are very straightforward since they are based on FTC regulations and DOE test procedures. However, anticipating how the unit will operate in each individual consumer application is much more complicated. The intent of this posting is simply to provide some amplifying information from GE’s perspective, which will help consumer’s make the right purchase decision for their specific situation. At GE we are very excited about this product and its ability to save over 50% of the energy consumed by a standard electric water heater.

Power usage: (GE brochure) 4,500 watts using traditional heating element, Heat pump - 550 watts

Noise/fan (GE brochure): 59 dba

Finally "Bob" is very far off in his calculations of energy efficiency (EF). A perfect electric hot water heater using resistive heating elements (non-heat pump) would have an EF of 1.0 - essentially perfect conversation of electrical energy to heat. Electrical heating elements do that although a tiny bit of that electrical energy is converted into light. Most electrical hot water heaters are rated at .9 EF because heat is lost through the tank's insulation (so called standby losses). The magic of a heat pump is that it is "stealing" heat from the room and hence the EF of 1.8 or more. GE has an excellent discussion of this at their web site under Q&A

I recently purchased a Rheem Marathon eighty gallon water heater. The customer service has be excellent, if I had to pay full price for this water heater I would do it again, Rich at Marathon technical support has been without peer. I am going to purchase an A7 model AirTap brand water heater heat pump. This item may be able to take the place of my dehumidifier which runs 24/7/365. I might be able to eliminate the purchase price of the dehumidifier with plus the cost of running it. The AirTap is the most energy-efficient water heater in USA (certified by GAMA). In addition to the super insulated Marathon Tank (guaranteed for life) and the most efficient heat pump, Duke Power might have to pay me!
Posted by: David Williams

I just installed one in Florida, where it appears to make ultimate sense. With a city rebate of $1200 and a 30% federal tax credit on the rest of the $2300 installed price, the real cost to me is just $770 total. Because my electrical KWH cost is among the highest in the state, I anticipate savings of at least $280 per year (probably a little more), so the payoff in utility bill savings is less than 3 years, and it cools my too-hot garage. Noise level seems about the same as a room air filter or dehumidifier, but it's in the garage so I only hear it when I'm out there. I don't have gas service, so that's not an option.

"bob," if this was a test, you just flunked high school physics.

440 W * 90 minutes = 2376000 joules = 567878 calories

50 gallons = 189271ml = 189271 g of water

Electrical energy used per degree = (567878cal / 189271g)/10F = 0.30 cal/g-F = 0.54 c/gC

Heat energy added to water per degree (specific heat capacity of water) = 1.000 c/gC

So, the EF (heat energy added / electrical energy used) is 1/0.54 = 1.85

BTW, what did you mean by "both legs"? You don't mean you measured the return current and the supply current and added them together, do you? That would (of course) be double counting.

Also... where are you measuring the temperature? I assume you know that the hot water collects at the top of the unit and it would be difficult to mix the water in the tank to get the temperature you need for this calculation.

Do you really not trust the testing laboratories where these units are certified? If not, you must have a nice collection of tin hats.

Cheers,
Tim Nelson
SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory

If you have gas why would you install anything beside a tankless system, especially if being "green" is a primary consideration?

"If you have gas why would you install anything beside a tankless system, especially if being "green" is a primary consideration?"

It's 2.5 times more efficient than tankless at point of use, but when you consider end-to-end efficiency (including utility transmission losses) gas is probably more efficient overall.

However, if a significant fraction of your electricity is generated without fossil fuels (depends on where you live) electric will be more green by that factor yet again.

Moreover, if like me, you are going solar PV on your house... then there is no comparison whatsoever.

Unless I am mistaken, won't the water heater be pulling conditioned air from the home (esp during winter months)and replacing it with essentially cold air. This product seems to make sense for consumers in southern climates but not for northerners who condition the inside air with a furnaces a good portion of the year. Is the cost of reconditioning that cold air with your furnace considered in the energy cost of the water heater. (I have not read all comments prior so this may have already been discussed)

I have one of these at my home, installed on February. Interim conclusions:
- So far there were no reliability issues.
- It is ridiculously heavy, you'd need it delivered.
- Installation is indeed like a normal water heater. It has two modes, one "normal" mode where it heats as any water heater (about 3.5KW) and one high-efficiency mode, where it emits cool air and consumes about 0.5KW (presumably about 1-1.5KW of heat is applied to the water). It uses two-phase electricity (240V).
- In my experience, in the winter the water temperature ends up being lower than the summer. In the winter, it didn't have enough hot water for two baths or one pretty long shower, which made me increase the water temperature a bit. I didn't experience the same problem in the summer.
- I like the vacation mode, where you set it to stop heating the water for the time you're away (it lets it cool up to 50F, so it won't freeze), and then start heating them again the day before you come back.
- I found it saves me about $20-25 a month in power bills.
- It makes noise when it's on, comparable to a dish washer.
- If you buy it this year, the federal government will pick up 30% of the tab (excluding taxes and installation).
- I bought it from a national hardware chain, rhymes with "rows"...

I live in Tallahassee FL. We currently have a $1200 local rebate on this thing. My water heater is in the garage that is not heated/cooled. Warm summers. Not too cold winters but it will occasionally dip into the low 20's a few nights a year. The garage shouldn't get colder then about 40 on those nights, but I did see some moisture in the garage ice over.

Still with the local rebate, should be a no brainer, right?

I would like to see a complete Life Cycle Analysis - including comparisons with natural gas on an LCA basis. Is this available? So hard to make informed decisions without this complete picture.

Would you not have to compare total energy use for home to come up with real efficiency?

Both Rheem and GE make hybrid water heaters, so a comparison would be nice. Rheem's web site states a 40 gal. tank is coming soon.
I'm interested in installing in a mountain climate, dry and cool, so I'm wondering how the humidity affects the operation.

My husband and I purchased this old fixer upper house over three years ago. I've talked him into replacing our standard 30 gal hot water heater with the GE Hybrid Electric Water Heater located in the garage. The noise and drainage will not be a factor if installed correctly. I'm just wondering if it is worth the $1900 investment, because I hate "I TOLD YOU SOs".

Any comments/suggestions will be appreciated.

Ok folks. I just got the latest issue of CR and found the article on hot water heaters a bit frustrating. I had been hoping to find some kind of chart which would tell me the most efficient way to heat water. I know situations can vary, but I was hopeful!
I have an ancient gas hot water heater and during the summer months I spend $30/month and it is the only gas appliance other than the pilot light for the furnace (no gas stove). The water heater sits in conditioned space in our basement and as a result sees about 70 degrees year around. I have to think that my hot water usage is roughly $30 x 12/year, or $360/year in gas (well, my furnace pilot light is huge but we are replacing the furnace with a Carrier Infinity in two weeks).
According to the EnergyStar guide, a new 50 gallon gas fired tank will cost me $294/year. A tankless will cost $223/year according to EnergyStar but I don't like the delayed heat aspect. And the GeoSpring will cost me $247/year according to the GE calculator ($198 according to EnergyStar).

I have gas. I would think that at a constant basement temp of 70F the need for the heating elements in the GeoSpring to kick on should be minimal.

Anyone have any thoughts?

To take advantage of the 30% tax credit, this unit needs to be purchased and installed by December 31, 2010. So, waiting for the next generation might mean paying more out of pocket. Just something to consider...

If you live in a warmer climate (e.g., Florida) you might install this in your garage where it is almost certainly hot most of the time. If you live in the Northeast or North, you will probably install this in your basement. So, how to address the robbing Peter to pay Paul concern?

My plumber suggested that I shut down the hot water heater in the winter and run off the furnace as I had been doing before I purchased the unit. His thinking is that the furnace will be running anyway. This makes sense to me but I'm wondering if anyone has a differing opinion about this?

This unit will not refrigerate anything. It uses ambient air to warm up the cold, cold water as it gets into the unit. By using the relatively warm ambient air the water temperature will rise decreasing the need for electrically generated heat pretty much like an old fashion heat exchanger. My concern is the time it takes to regenerated hot water on households with more than two or with one hot water hog. I have one relative that spends as much time in the shower as the hot water allows. The application of this rather expensive unit needs to be analized carefully for each application. Otherwise the "savings" are not realized. By the way, electrical vs. natural gas/propane comparisons usually goes against electrical heat in costs. The problem with gas is the unregulated market allows gas lines owners to raise prices when WE need the gas. Imagine the government allowing supermarkets to raise prices on Thursday night before payday on milk, eggs and food in general. Would you complain? I suggest you do about this gas pricing situation. Good luck.

I installed one of these units two weeks ago in Western Washington State (rainy but mild temperature-wise) as a replacement of a conventinal elec. 50 gal tank. The unit is in an unheated basement. Not sure about savings yet (I'm sure there will be some, but we'll see.) So far I am very happy. Some notes:

* I have it runing in eheat mode (greatest energy savings), also turned the thermostat down to 115 and so far have not had any issues running out of hot water. Our houshold consists of 2 adults and 3 younger kids. We do have a high eff. washer, diswasher and low-flow showerheads, so that probably plays into the equation. Will probably have to put it in Hybrid mode in a few years when our oldest gets to that age of long showers.
* The unit is about as loud as a smallish A/C unit, and has two different fan speeds. The fast fan speed and compressor noise is certainly noticable. Personally, I would not want one of these units next to my bedroom or family room. Garage or basement is fine as long as it is away from a living space. This unit is not appropriate for you if you can't install it away from an area where the noise would be annoying.
* Installation was very easy, and I did it myself no problem. I would not pay anyone more than a few hundred $ for the install if you go that way.
* Get it cheep. My final price before sales tax was $1250 - down from $1599. Here's how I got it: Lowes had it as an internet special for ~1430. I also had their 10% off "moving" coupon (get it via their website). I had to call Lowes' corporate customer service to get them to honor both the internet sale and the copoun - local store wouldn't do it for some reason. I then "bought" it with my credit card. With the invoice they emailed me in-hand, I went to Sears which will beat anyones price by 10% of the difference - so that knocked another 30-40$ off. Then I got Lowes to refund the credit card charge (they tried to then beat Sears' price, but at that point I felt I was getting a good enough deal, and I like Sears). I'm guessing these stores get this unit wholesale around $900 or 1000 - maybe less? I'm a hagler, so this was fun and fruitfull. After 30% tax credit and 2 x 250$ rebates, I figure it will pay for itself in 2 years or so.
* The exhast air is not very cold - surely not cold enough to consider using it as a pseudo AC unit - and the unit is located next to my insulated furnace and duct work. I suspect that most of the "heat" of my basement in fact comes from the ground though. I have not noticed that the basement is any cooler than before I installed it. The one thing I have noticed though is how much water it pulls out of the air - the dehumidifying effect is very nice to have in a basement.

This unit is not for eveyone, but for my situation I am very happy :)

I am going today to buy this water heater. There is an excellent site on Youtube which has a person explaning his new heater. He even turns it on so you can hear it. It sounds very similar to a window air conditioner. It would not be too bothersome. Really excited to get this and will post back to let you know if I am saving energy and the noise level I experience.

I own and use this water heater.
This water heater is very efficient and operates in efficient heat pump mode down to 45F.
It should ideally be installed in an area where "waste heat" is available - like an unheated garage.

I installed one of these in my garage in portland oregon and it works well for my household of two.

My friend has a household of 3 and he has one of these installed in his basement. He likes it because it dehumidifies his basement and keep it dry.

I did a complex calculation determining if it would save him any power since in the winter it will somewhat rob his house of BTU's of heat and cause his oil heater to work a bit more.

The result of my calculation was that he saved more using the heat pump water heater (which also reduced his summer A/c power use) rather than using his traditional water heater and a dehumidifier.

I own this hot water heater and have used it for over 9 months.
It is installed in my unheated, uninsulated garage in Portland Oregon.
I run the water heater exclusively in heat pump only mode

I wanted to comment on NOISE:
The noise is usually very quiet, but when the heat pump is on full blast (it has speeds it chooses on its own based on demand I assume) it is noisy enough to be heard faintly through an insulated wall.

If I am inside the house about 15feet away from the water heater and it is on full blast I can hear it a tiny bit - even though this is through an insulated standard 2x4 wall.

If this was installed inside in a closet with louvered door (required for small space installations) it would be quite audible.

A little late to the posting but a recent problem with my GE Geospring water heater should be made public.

I purchased the unit in February of 2010 from Sears and had them install it. The installer needed to make some alterations to the water supply lines as this unit is rather tall in comparison to our old unit, so brand-new copper flex lines were added to make the connection to the nipples on the top of the water heater. The Geospring comes with the nipples already installed and even the threads come with Teflon tape already wrapped around them.

8 months later after installation a leak developed on the cold water supply side. About 20cc’s of orange-colored water an hour was seeping out from the connector and running down the side of the heater. Upon removing the flex connector about 1/3 the diameter of the galvanized iron pipe lip was clearly corroded and allowing water to seep through.

I contacted Sears who sent out a service technician to inspect the unit. He then called in their contract plumber to take a look. Both agreed that the galvanized iron pipe was corroding because it was in contact with water. The pipe is lined with a plastic or nylon material that stops just short of the inside lip, meaning there is exposed galvanized iron in constant contact with water at that point.

I then contacted GE since the unit is still under warranty for 1 year for defect parts and was told that the warranty does not cover corrosion and that “their parts don’t rust”. After much back and forth with several people at GE they finally agreed to send out their authorized service provider to inspect the unit. The plumber said it was a faulty installation because the copper flex tube gasket was probably allowing water to leak past. So now fingers are being pointed at one another and I have a leaking water heater.

My opinion is that the design of the plastic liner inside the galvanized iron pipe is faulty. Taking a look at other manufacturer’s water heaters in the stores, they all seem to have these liners but theirs the liner actually covers the lip of the pipe so that water can not come into contact with the galvanized iron in any way.

It cannot be returned and I’m afraid that replacing the nipple with the same design flaw will just lead to another eventual leak. I expected more from GE and am really disappointed in their service.

The unit does save money on our electric bill each month, but if I am going to have to pay $300 or so every year to have a plumber come out to fix a leak by replacing that inlet pipe, that savings is quickly going to be eaten up and it will never pay for itself.

I have one of these units, It works Great.

The amount of Cooling it puts out in my basement, is about equal to the amount of heat my back up refrigerator (next to the Water Heater ) puts out. So it is a Wash! I switched from Gas to electric in a Gas Market. Electric bill did not increase enough to make a difference, but gas bill went down $40 per month in the summer. I have tracked my utilities for 3 years, and I have not been able to see this type of savings with any other type of conservation method. ( Timers, etc)

Recovery is fine for my family of 5.

The savings are based on $.10 per KWH if you only pay $.07 per KWH then your savings will only be 70% of their estimate. Do not use these in a conditioned space as your furnace will have to make up the btu's removed from the room air and you will have no savings whatsoever in winter, only in the summer, when it will help lower the room temp and save some on the a/c. The savings are based on a significant use of hot water, if you use less, your savings will be less.

I would love to like this product...great on paper but I believe the energy analysis materially overstates the savings in a conditioned space because of Peter and Paul are not factored in. And who would want something as noisy as a window air unit running year round in their house? Also in MD, where I live, it would lower the ambient temperature in unconditioned space. I don't believe that the additional tank and piping heat loss is factored in nor the danger of freezing its own or other water piping where the outside temperatures plus the unit's cooling effect promote pipe freezing.
Can this product be configured like a ductless room heat pump? That might make more sense, even if installation was more expensive.

How does this unit deal with condensation? Must it be piped or pumped to a drain or does it have some sort of evaporator pan?

Bought this unit in August. Easy to install, and LOVE it! Heats a tank in less than an hour and have seen my electric bill decrease by $20.00 a month. Living in Phoenix, I keep it set on 114 degrees in summer and it's plenty hot. As far as the fan noise, mine is in the garage so it is not an issue. Highly recommended!

I have an oil burning furnace and NO water heater. My hot water is great but burning heating oil year round is not cost efficient so I'm looking into installing a standard electric water heater that I can switch over to during the warmer months (I live in mid-Atlantic region) or purchasing the GE geothermal wh. The tankless wh estimate came in at $3500, $999 for the unit and $2500 for installation! Other problems mentioned on this site about tankless were not mentioned during the estimate so who knows what other costs I would have encountered. Saying NO to tankless.